First 16mm Camera questions

[ComingApart]

As far as the K-3 goes, I'm not too afraid of the fact it's Russian, I've been collecting russian optics and still cameras for a while, so I know what to expect. Other than a few rare fit and finish problems, i've had no problems with russian cameras, other than what other people say...
My point about the Bolex is, I can buy a used, aged H-16 with a decent set of lenses or for the same amount of money I can get a brand new, Pro modified, Super16 converted, crystal synced, warrantied K-3 with plenty of accessories.
I figured my best bet would be to get a basic K-3, that I could upgrade at my whim, instead of getting stuck with an overpriced, practically non-serviceable antique, just my thoughts on the subject, but thanks for the replies.

[nextspielberg]

Are you saying my Arri 'S' is an antique??

[ComingApart]

I was reffering to the Bolex as antique. From what I've heard, read, and from my own experiences with russian film equipment, I'm pretty sure I'll be going with the K-3, most of the common problems associated with the K-3 are also shared by the Arri S. While I'm sure the Arri is a better quality camera, that just can't justify the cost difference, IMO
BTW I've heard that the Arri S can't be converted to Super16, but I know the Super 16 K-3 conversion is pretty popular, can you shed some light on this?

[nextspielberg]

You're right you can easily convert the K-3 to Super 16, which is basically the only point I like about it.

Converting an Arri S to Super 16 is practically impossible.

Has anyone on this board worked with an Arri SR2 or SR?

[robertshults]

All Krasnogorsk movie and Kiev still cameras need to be reflocked and sealed right out of the factory to prevent light leaks. A good polishing on any parts of the K3 that come in contact with the film is highly recommended. The K3's are also notorious for frame rates "dropping off" after time. The crystal synch motor does help this, but eventually the rotating mirror can loosen and sort of swing on it's own. The camera needs many new and properly installed springs, pull cables, other little parts to prevent this. But, if you're buying crystal synch that should (but might not) solve the problem. A pro-level upgraded kit should cost $1000 - $1400 with a TCS motor. If you're paying less, I would fear that you're getting a factory direct model. Also, I've seen good Beaulieu R16's sell for under a grand. But, really, buy the bolex.

[This message has been edited by robertshults (edited July 08, 2001).]

[[email protected]]

People are going to say and feel what they want to, but I bought a brand new straight from the factory non kiev/reeltrading/ncs
K-3 and I absolutely love it. It does jam if I don't load it properly, but I understand so do some Bolexs if one does the same thing. My camera is an unmodified model and it takes pretty phenomenal images. It always absolutely amazes me. I got one for under $200 on ebay from a seller named "Limieu" (not sure if the sellers name is spelled correctly) and I am very happy I did. If you buy one of the "modified" cameras I'm sure you'll be very happy. Or if you buy one the way I did and have it modified at your convienence I'm sure you'll be just as happy. The key for me seems to be that I have to thread the K-3 manually instead of trying to use the auto-thread feature. I own a few 16mm cameras including two(2) Bell and Howells(70-DL & DR) and they're fine, but I love the K-3. American Cinematographer Magazine did a write up on it and some pros liked it and some didn't. I guess thats just the way it is with almost anything. Spike Lee uses his own personal(unmodified) K-3 often. Oh, by the way, if you get a sync motor put in they remove the spring forever, so a broken spring will not be an issue. Just to give you a first hand different opinion.

[ComingApart]

Thanks for the responses guys, they've been helpful.
robertshults- I appreciate the info, but I've collected Russian 35mm cameras for a while, Kiev's, Zenit's, etc and while they do have problems, IME, about 1 in 12 might need to be resealed. I'm used to being told all manner of things about my cameras, for some reason people despise Russian equipment, sure it may not be the same as a top of the line pro setup, but I'm not paying top of the line prices either. But once again, I appreciate the info.
Pineapple- Thanks for the reply, I figure I'll buy a standard one, and if it does give me problems, I'll either send it off to get modified or do it myself, and I'll still be better off and have spent less money...
BTW what kind of images do you get from your B&H's? I don't really like the fact that they're non-reflex, but they seem like they would make a good backup cameras.

[pineapplefilms]

They make a great second/crash camera. The images are nice and the non-reflex lens isn't much of a problem. You can also invest in dog leg/type a lenses that have a built in viewer, but they're not cheap. The Bell and Howell 70 series camera was used to film POV footage in PI amongst other films. American Cinematographer Magazine will ocassionally do an article on a feature film that utilizes the Filmo(16 MM) or Eyemo(35 MM) cameras to capture 2nd unit work on a film. Best of luck. I'm sure you'll be happy with the K-3.

[no_one119]

I've shot with an SR2, and I've seen one converted to run S16.

[sdchown]

The Arri SR2 is a modern state of the art piece of equipment that can be modified to S16. The old arri-S is a rugged old piece of machinary that can't be converted. Don't get confused between the two.

A GREAT book is the 16mm Camera Handbook. You can get it from Amazon and it will lay out all the strengths and weaknesses of 16mm cameras, including Eclair, Arri, Bolex, K-3, Cinema Products, Beuelieu etc.

Later
Stephen Chown